Bring your Tigers football, basketball and recruiting questions, and talk to Eli Hoff in a live chat at 11 a.m. Thursday.
Transcript
Eli Ǵڴ:Good morning, Mizzou fans! How about last night, eh? I'm curious to hear where y'all would rank that basketball game in terms of the best you've seen from the Tigers. I'm inclined to think it's certainly up there in terms of entertainment value — and that was before seeing a smoky arena due to a small fire in a suite afterward! We'll dig into all your questions and thoughts for the next few hours, so drop 'em here.
ܲ:Okay, Eli. Tell me why I shouldn't worry about a desperate Arkansas team in Fayetteville this weekend.
Ǵڴ:On one hand, I can't really tell you not to worry. It's still an SEC road game, and there's just an inherent degree of difficulty that comes with that. And yes, the Hogs will be desperate. They need to get four wins out of their last five games to make the tournament. Interestingly, this is the most difficult game remaining for both teams. MU because it's on the road against a capable team, Arkansas because MU is that good, even coming to Fayetteville.
But here's the confident spin: Arkansas has lost to Florida, Oklahoma and Alabama at home this season. Mizzou has beat all three of those teams. There's always a chance that this Razorbacks team just unravels at some point. They've lost two in a row. It's far from a guaranteed victory and will probably be close, but Mizzou is the favorite down there for a reason.
senior scramble: I went into the men's basketball season hoping beyond hope Mizzou could get to 8 SEC wins. Incredible how this team has come together. So many weapons and a very unselfish team. Not sure what the ceiling is. Do you see any freshmen returning to Mizzou. I feel Pierce, Robinson and Mitchell will return after that not sure. I hope Mizzou AD puts great effort in doing everything he can do to keep those 4 Lady Mizzou players who played high school in Mo. Not sure if Randall has a year left but if the ne coach can retain the 4 Mizzouri born players and add 4 or 5 decent players they should at least compete with the middle of the SEC. conferrence. Thanks for thr chat.
Ǵڴ:I think we all went into this season with that as the bar. I remember writing/talking about figuring out the path to eight wins — and they've already passed that mark. Of course, any given player can leave any given offseason, but I'd in general expect good retention from this group. Players who stayed for this season stayed after a terrible year, so you'd think they'd really want to stick around after this one. Gates has sold them on a developmental vision for themselves and this program. I think all of them have seen reasons to stay bought into that. There will also be expanded opportunities next year. Perkins, Bates, Grill, Gray and Warrick are all in their final years. (I think, anyway. Eligibility can still be a bit wonky for some players.) That's some serious production that will need replacing. Younger guys can keep carving out roles and surprise some people. Did anyone think Robinson and Pierce would be quality starters at this time last year?
One of the interesting things with the eventual women's hoops hire will be the retention piece. There are certainly some capable players on this squad, and I don't think doing a wholesale locker room change is really all that helpful. The continuity will be just as important as who the portal adds are.
dzԳ:Good morning, Yes, every Tiger fan is feeling the surge to the next level this morning! Echoing J. Gordon's column this week, it is readily apparent that the 9-10 man rotation keeps the fresh-legs and hands active versus the opponent. I thought 'Bama got a little fatigued is the 2nd half and MIZZOU was able to counter-punch their late surge due in part to this. Please advise.
Ǵڴ:There certainly seemed to be some mental fatigue from Alabama. I don't think they were expecting to go up against a team that was happy to play fast, too, and able to keep ahead of them the entire game. Auburn sort of did that, but the Tide came back into that one. The fresh legs were also important as foul trouble became a little dicey down the stretch. If the rotation was just a player or two smaller, maybe that would have been a real problem last night. Even just a few minutes of relief for players can be key in dodging fouls and staying fresh.
And we're really seeing what Gates' ideal rotation looks like at this time of year. Two players went above 30 minutes: Mitchell and Grill. Four more went above 20 minutes: Pierce, Robinson, Perkins, Bates. Three were between seven minutes and 14 minutes: Gray, Crews, Allen. And then Warrick, Shaw, Barrett played two minutes or less. It's not just about it being 12-deep. It's about there being layers or tiers within the rotation that really helps — and the fact that players can shuttle between those based on who's up for it on a given night.
ٰ:I thought Robinson would be. You asked.
Eli: This Mizzou team has turned into one of the best perimeter defending teams in Mizzou history with its ability to pressure the ball, switch, trap, and not get beaten consistently off the dribble. So, my question has to do with Gates's portal recruiting. Does Gates recruit the portal with a style in mind, or is he recruiting the best players he can find, and then he adapts the style to the players? It feels like the defense on this team has evolved steadily, which makes me thinks it's the latter, but I imagine you've had those discussions with him.
Hoff: Kudos to you for spotting it with Robinson. I admit I wasn't in that group, even on the doorstep of this season.
Yes, Gates went for a specific style in the portal this year. He wanted players who could work in this steal-happy, transition-driven system. He wanted better rebounders. He wanted, most of all, more size. Last year's team was quite small, so getting length was a key in the portal. To me, it was most evident when he went after Perkins — a tall point guard with a defensive pedigree. This was how Gates hoped his team could play, and the portal strategy was a factor there.
ٰ:Do you think Gates will rethink his nonconference scheduling moving forward? I'm not suggesting they lineup all top 25 teams, but there are blood donors and there are blood donors. The non-power conference teams they scheduled were so bad it's killed Mizzou's SOS, which creates a problem with power rankings, which matter come seeding time. Consider that Mizzou played Memphis, Illinois, and KU in non-conference, three top 25 caliber teams, which is typical for most programs, they play in the SEC, which is brutal, and still their SOS is really bad compared to many of the top teams.
Ǵڴ:Maybe it goes up a bit in strength after this season — UAPB and Mississippi Valley State probably don't need to be on there. There's the question of whether Gates would sign the Tigers on for one of those nonconference tournaments/events that usually give you a few chances at a resume booster early on. But at the same time, this season might well be validating his approach. I'm not sure a tougher nonconference schedule would've really helped this team. Look at how they played against Memphis in the opener, or even Eastern Washington, when Grill bailed them out. They weren't ready to play like they are now. There's something about a quieter start to the season that seemed to help this team come together. Maybe strength of schedule will be a knock on them in a seeding fight in a few weeks' time, but there's an argument that the flow of this season will be more helpful because it has the team playing like it is now. There's validity to both the push for something stronger in the noncon and the approach taken this season.
Evil Calvin: Hello Eli......lots of positives in that game last night but for them to succeed in the SEC tourney and the NCAA tournament they need to do better than shoot 66% free throws (missing 16). They are tops in the country in FT attempts, so hitting at LEAST their 71% average is a must. 75% would be reasonable.
Ǵڴ:Yes. I keep thinking that the free-throw shooting is going to cost this team a game at some point. For a few minutes last night, I thought that was going to be the night it did, until it didn't. I don't know what the fix is. Opponents know what the situation is, and Alabama was picking who they intentionally fouled. Even outside of those close-game scenarios, some players just aren't making enough. It's tough to mess with free throws in season. A lot of shot-tinkering is a process that has to get worse before it can get better — like a swing — so it's risky to change it up this time of year. The big piece, in my eyes, would be getting Ant Robinson back on track from the stripe so that he can be one of the consistent players. Otherwise, this might have to be the aspect of this team that makes folks sweat.
ٰ:Interesting. I'm hoping this is the style that becomes Mizzou's signature moving forward. You always have a chance if you can pressure the perimeter the way they do without getting beaten consistently off the dribble. Frankly, Alabama loses by 30 last night if they don't have such good ball-handlers who kept the ball moving against that pressure, often making shots at the end of the clock. Most teams would have wilted against that pressure. Keep recruiting rangy guys who can switch and shoot.
Ǵڴ:I agree. It's fun to watch and scales well against both lesser and better competition. Given that Gates will take two of his Mizzou teams to the tournament with this general style, I think it's safe to assume this will be the loose blueprint year in, year out.
And yes, Alabama only stuck around because they've got some plain ol' shot makers. Sears had the best game of any MU opposing player this year, except maybe Jakucionis in Braggin' Rights. When he picked up that loose ball late in the second half and fired off the 3 almost instantly... man, what a shot. The Tide deserve some credit for being so persistently close to making it close, if that makes sense. Many teams would have just faded away after being re-buffed.
Evil Calvin: Ranked 325th I believe in non-conference schedule. They should be in the 200-250 at worst.
ٰ:Again, I'm not talking about adding more power 5 teams to the non-con, necessarily. But I think you want to avoid those teams that are literally among the worst in the nation. I think you can swap them out for teams in that 150-200 range, and still win comfortably and develop your team. If you can't, then there are bigger problems than scheduling. I do think Mizzou's goal needs to be to develop the program to have less turnover so you have better cohesion and be confident that you can be a part of those noncon tourneys that get you some good competition before the conference season and that bolster SOS. There will always be some roster churn these days, but when you rely so heavily on upperclassmen transfers, you guarantee it'll be more because you'll have so much to replace every year.
Ǵڴ:That's fair, and I think there's merit to a middle ground approach with nonconference scheduling. I will add: I like the idea of playing a good team to start off the season like they did with Memphis this year. That was an excellent barometer and made the opener more interesting than it otherwise might have been. Not that anyone is asking me for scheduling advice, but I'd make that particular type of matchup a priority.
I do think Gates wants to get the program to that point of minimal roster churn. The hard part is that it requires guys to stick around. But if he can get it to a point where he returns eight players each season, adds three from high school and four from the portal, that's probably about as good as it can get from a continuity standpoint — give or take.
Evil Calvin: Do any of the SR's have eligibility next year? Any planning on returning
Ǵڴ:The one that's up in the air, as far as I know, is Crews because he played at the JUCO level. My understanding is that the NCAA waiver would give him another year if he wants it. That would depend on his decision, Mizzou wanting him back, etc. And my interpretation could be wrong as well. I get the sense that's something that will be sorted out right after the season ends. Otherwise, I think the seniors will be moving on as expected. (And I say I think because it's really hard to be 100% with anyone's eligibility these days.)
'Ա:I keep hearing about Trent Burns on the injury report. But, saw him standing in the background last night and dude is huge. What is the projection for him next year and going forward? Also, do you think Boateng will return next year? Top recruits generally don't respond well to riding the pine these days.
Ǵڴ:Burns is listed at 7-foot-5, and I can believe it. He has the Wemby-esque height that is mind-boggling to see in person. Mizzou likes him as a multi-skilled guy who will obviously be a matchup nightmare. I haven't seen him in a game here, of course, or even really practice to know how ready he'll be next season. But the staff really, really likes his potential.
With Boateng, it's hard to know. This year certainly hasn't been what seemed possible in the preseason, but he did get an opportunity. Gates recruits players who want to be developed — that's the model. Of course, a freshman season can test that, and some will have a change of heart. It never feels 100% whether any given player will be back in the modern college sports landscape.
Larry M: I think it was the Pressy/Marcus Denmon team that was seeded # 1 in the March Madness and lost to a 16 seed. Need to stay grounded thru the SEC trny to keep the hunger burning for the NCAA. Maybe some would rather win the SEC and that would be good too. Love watching this team. MIZ
Ǵڴ:Ah, the Norfolk State game. I believe that was a 15 over 2 seed upset, but nonetheless not a fun memory for you all, I'm sure. This team does still seem grounded. They're certainly not deterred by the spotlight — just look at the start to last night's game and how they stayed composed down the stretch.
We talk a lot about the ceiling in an NCAA Tournament sense, but there's also a whole lot to play for in Nashville. Mizzou has shown it can compete with everyone in the league except Auburn. And frankly, I think MU could stick with Auburn on a neutral floor based on recent form.
ϳܱپDzԲ:Hey Eli you're on a roll! Your recent articles on the gymnast (and I don't even follow gymnastics), Trent Pierce, and the preview of the Mizzou/Bama game with the stats were all great! Thanks for those, and all your excellent writing!
Ǵڴ:Well thank you! There are a whole lot of compelling stories within the Mizzou athletics department, and it's a joy to be able to tell the ones I can. That's the fun part of this job!
ٰ:No, they were a #2. That wasn't about being grounded or hungry. That was about having a truly awful coach in Frank Haith who had them completely unprepared to play a team who knew how to attack their defense. He made zero adjustments in that game, which was the beginning of the end for him. There's a reason why Haith left every program worse than when he found it.
Ǵڴ:That's a reply to the question about 2012, for reference. I'll defer to this analysis — I was... ready for this? ... in elementary school for that game, so I have no memory of it to offer commentary.
ٰ:I think it's clear that Gates needs to have guys who are willing to be coached. He is not afraid of challenging his guys or sitting them when they aren't doing what they need to do. Robinson, Pierce, and Miller have all had to sit when Gates wasn't pleased with their performances, and they have all bounced back. That's getting rarer these days, both in terms of the coach being unafraid of his players, and players being willing to accept that coaching and build on it. To what degree, as far as you know, does any coach and someone like Gates in particular know if that's the kind of player they're getting when they recruit them?
Ǵڴ:He has no hesitation or qualms about sitting players down, challenging them, demanding more, etc. I think just about everyone on the roster has been challenged at some point this season, and all of them have responded. That's not hyperbole — I'm looking at the roster and can confidently say Robinson, Warrick, Bates, Pierce, Shaw Mitchell, Grill and Gray have all been asked to do more and done that.
It's a little more possible to find that character when recruiting high school kids over the span of a few years, but even then, it's trying to gauge the coachability of a teenager, which is always fickle. It's even harder in the portal — Gates, like other coaches, uses the term speed-dating for it. Part of what helps is that Gates tends to be an up-front, transparent guy about his expectations. I don't think a prospective player could get through a visit to Mizzou without having an understanding of what it would look like to play for Gates. Certainly current players can and do provide perspective as well. It can't be a perfect science because of the systems that be around recruiting and the portal, but clear demonstrated philosophies do help.
ٰ:Speaking of Pierce, I thought last night was his best game of the year. Aggressive, active on D, doing more than just hovering around the perimeter. I loved the way he attacked the basket. Six boards and five assists in 27 minutes to go along with 8 points. More like that and the kid will be a star.
Ǵڴ:We write a big article on him and suddenly... I kid, I kid. He was the best player on the floor in those opening few minutes. Maybe a year from now we look back at this game and say that's when we first saw a glimpse of Trent Pierce the star. There's a reason he was considered the most likely NBA guy on the roster a year ago. I think Marcus Allen takes that spot now, but Pierce is still very much in the mix.
ٲ:What's the story behind all the players holding fingers to their mouths (like a be quiet sign) at the after game interview last night with Mitchell? Have seen that a couple other times and seems to be a sign that the team mates seem to rally around.
Ǵڴ:It's one of those "directed at the haters" things. The players felt like they weren't getting the respect/spot in the national discussion that they deserved, so they're telling those "people" to stay quiet now. I don't think the specific message is as important as the fun they're having with making the "shhh" symbol in the postgame interviews, and what it shows about this locker room coming together so well.
ٰ:Ugh! You made me feel old! But I think any Mizzou fan over 30 has that game etched in their memories and his plenty of ill-will still rumbling around for Haith, easily the worst (and most dumbfounding) hire of Mike Alden's tenure.
Ǵڴ:Side note here. Maybe this is an offseason project, but it could be fun to determine generations based on which Mizzou game is most etched into fans' brains. It feels like each generation has one that really, really sticks.
'Ա:Probably shouldn't waste a question on it, as its all speculation at this point...but, i'd expect Shaw fits into the same category of questionable to return. He can't be happy with how this season has played out. Regrettable as he's a super athletic kid who I believe could really contribute here. We'll see how it plays out. I haven't followed recruiting for next year. Any noteworthy freshman coming in?
Ǵڴ:You're right that it's pure speculation, but it's fair to wonder about his future. The developmental leap just hasn't happened for him.
The two freshmen in the incoming class are Aaron Rowe, a PG out of Tolton here in Columbia, and Nicholas Randall, a forward from Vashon in the Ӱԭ area who's at a prep school this year. Rowe's stock has slid pretty steeply over the last year since he committed to MU as a junior. Randall has more buzz, but he's not a super high-end recruit. This class was always going to be a little smaller to accommodate the big class directly ahead of it.
'Ա:Easy for me...Northern Iowa, 1990. :( But, some great games from that era too, we swept kU that season and had some were ranked #1 for a stretch that season.
Ǵڴ:See? Everybody's got that one game that immediately comes to mind. It's one of those things that comes with sports fandom.
䲹:Gates is so composed on the sideline during games. It's impressive. And his players seem to reflect that composure during dames and especially at those high pressure moments. Clearly he builds a great culture. Besides delivering more wheel barrows of money, what can MU do to ensure he stays long term?
Ǵڴ:I really have no idea how he stays as stoic as he does. Even when he's picked up a technical for yelling at a ref (like Braggin' Rights) he's not even close to smashing up a whiteboard mad. The way to keep him around is to keep giving him what he needs to run a program here. Keep a good pool of money to spend on player compensation. Keep the facilities nice. Let him hire a high-quality staff like he has now. Gates has been talking recently about staying at MU for 20-plus years. I don't think he's just saying that for the PR. He signed a contract that makes it very hard for another school to buy him out and hire him, which shows his commitment. All it really takes is investment for MU to show the same.
Evil Calvin: 1995 Tyus Edney coast to coast untouched layup to give UCLA the win vs Mizzou in the NCAA tourney......geez ....30 years!!!
Ǵڴ:I feel bad for making everyone think back on all of these moments, but it is fun for me to hear everyone's "The Loss" and find clips of it!
Larry M: OK, you mentioned Marcus Allen above as a future NBA possibility. What are his strengths and how has he shown that type of rating.
Ǵڴ:A few things that stand out: He's a tremendous free-throw shooter, which NBA scouts love because it shows good fundamentals and can translate directly to the league. Free throws are free throws at any level. He has a "plus" wingspan that is longer than his height. That allows him to guard up and down and be more switchable. His understanding of the game, especially defensively, is extremely advanced. He processes the flow at an instinctual rate you just don't see with many freshmen. His ceiling is as high as anyone's with those things in mind.
ٰ:Rock M Nation did a nice piece on Rowe, explaining that his ranking fell thanks to summer performance that was likely hindered by personal matters and that his game looks better these days. I'd be a little concerned about his size and athleticism, though.
Ǵڴ:Good context there. I'd watched him play in person last year and did think he was going to have a lot of bulking up to do to not get bumped off the floor in the SEC. Ant has shown you don't need to be a big-bodied guard, but size could limit Rowe early on.
ʲѲٱ:Eli, i just want to tell you that i really enjoyed your column on Trent Pierce. More stories like that! Keep up the good work!
Ǵڴ:Thank you! I was honored that Trent chose to share his story this way. And I'm glad it touched so many folks. The team and staff were excited to hear that so many people read the piece and responded to it. There will be more stories where that came from, I promise.
'Ա:Easy to remember the losses. But, the triple OT vs. illini in 1993 was pretty epic (you can watch the full game on youtube, Eli :)). I was even in attendance for that one at the old barn. Or, how about Piatkowski's 3 rimming out to secure our 14-0 in the Big8 that same year.
Ǵڴ:Now that's more fun!
Florida Al: Hi Eli...as someone who has watched Mizzou basketball since 1970 and saw many in Brewer Field House, this is the best all around team I've seen them put together...they just keep on improving. Other teams have had some great players, but not the depth of this team where 4 or five players who can take over a game...that's hard to plan for. This is a legit top 10 team with Final Four potential. I was glad to see the fans not storm the court. We were the favorites to win and like the team, the fans need to acknowledge that expectations dictate the fans not acting surprised when we beat a team like that.
Ǵڴ:I thought it was wise for Gates to keep the fans off the floor, too. Their goal is to be a top-five team, not just beat those teams, and that requires fans to have a shift in perception. Gates didn't say that's why he asked fans not to rush the court when I asked him his logic. He talked about saving the $500k fine, protecting players and that sort of thing, but I have to imagine the thought that this was a game Mizzou always should have won is a part of the thinking.
Your point about them continuing to improve is well-taken. Gates keeps insisting they can get better. We can spot ways for that to occur, too. Normally, that would be coach-speak. But given the trajectory of this season, it actually seems true and plausible that they'll keep making gains.
'Ա:Could be splitting hairs, but 88-89 was pretty darn stacked. (Byron Irvin, Doug Smith, Anthony Peeler, Nathan Buntin, Lee Coward, Gary Leonard, Sandbothe, Church, etc). I'm probably forgetting some people too. At least 4-5 NBA players there (none really lasted long other than AP, though).
Ǵڴ:And splitting eras, no? It does seem 88-89 is the standard for a truly great Mizzou hoops team, though.
ʴǷɱ74:A week ago some friends were telling me that Mizzou might have the problem of having a true "go-to" player. Last night they believed me when I said we might have 6!
Ǵڴ:You're not wrong at all. Mizzou is far from one-dimensional, and that's what makes this team so dangerous. It could be any of several players who deliver the winning blows on any given night.
Florida Al: I also wanted to mention that your Eye on the Tigers analysis on the remaining games was the best ever. It was so in depth and complete. I do miss BenFred on your pod casts thought...you guys had great chemistry!
Ǵڴ:I'm glad to hear that! I'll be recording a new episode this afternoon with some more of my thoughts on last night. I'll have a more regular rhythm of guests going for next "season" of the podcast starting in fall camp. Just not the time to lock something like that in while this basketball season is playing out in the mean time!
OK folks, that's where we'll cap today's chat. Thanks to everyone who came by — this was a fun one. Lots of Youtube clips to watch now and memories shared. I'll be in Fayetteville this weekend to provide on-site coverage of MU vs. Arkansas. And we'll chat again here next week!
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