Bring your Tigers football, basketball and recruiting questions, and talk to Eli Hoff in a live chat at 11 a.m. Thursday.
Transcript
Eli Hoff: Hi y'all, and happy Thursday. Welcome to another Mizzou subscriber chat. If you've got questions or takes on Missouri football, basketball or anything else, feel free to drop them in here and we'll talk them over during the next couple of hours. Let's get rolling!
骋顿:听Hi. In reality, what is the best case scenario for Mizzou football if they win out the remaining schedule?
贬辞蹿蹿:听I mean, the absolute best case scenario is that the Tigers make the College Football Playoff. They aren't mathematically eliminated yet, just functionally. There's been a lot of talk this week about the ways that the SEC could finish with all sorts of chaos, and that's what it would take for MU to get one of the 12 spots, even if it won out. Keep in mind that the CFP committee ranked Mizzou below three-loss Louisville, three-loss LSU and three-loss South Carolina. That should tell you a lot about how it views Missouri.
So with that in mind, I think the best realistic scenario is Mizzou getting into the Citrus Bowl, which is the highest-regarded bowl game outside of the CFP. It's an SEC-Big Ten matchup, so presumably would be programs of decent pedigree in there.
叠谤别迟迟辞:听I know you can never control the transfer portal, but which Tigers will either graduate or run out of eligibility at the end of the season?
贬辞蹿蹿:听I compiled this list a couple of weeks ago. There's a chance I've left someone off of it or included somebody who actually has a year lying around somewhere, but this is the general portrait of which players will definitely be gone: QB Brady Cook, RB Marcus Carroll, RB Nate Noel, WR Theo Wease Jr., WR Mookie Cooper, RG Cam'Ron Johnson, OL Mitchell Walters, LT Marcus Bryant, TE Tyler Stephens, DE Johnny Walker Jr., DT Kristian Williams, LB Chuck Hicks, LB Corey Flagg Jr., CB Marcus Clarke, S Joseph Charleston, S Tre'Vez Johnson, S Sidney Williams Sr..
Note that that doesn't include players who might put aside remaining eligibility and declare for the NFL Draft, like Luther Burden.聽
叠谤别迟迟辞:听I thought the game against Oklahoma was the first time this year that the Tigers played with Heart and Fight, but I'm afraid South Carolina is going to murder Missouri.
贬辞蹿蹿:听Ben Frederickson and I talked about that first part on the Eye on the Tigers podcast episode we recorded yesterday: There's no disputing that the OU game meant something to that Missouri locker room. Any concerns that they wouldn't show up for the game were assuaged when some MU players chose to run out of the tunnel and straight through the Oklahoma bench area during their pregame entrance. I think the fight that the Tigers showed is absolutely with acknowledging.
And yes, I see how this weekend could be ugly. For one, it seems like the sportsbooks think it will 鈥 looks like the Gamecocks are generally favored by around two touchdowns. You've got their pass rush, which is up there with the best in the nation, against an O-line that struggled with its last premier D-line matchup (A&M) and will now have a new starting center. Oh, and either a QB with two injuries or the backup who could really use a clean pocket to get going.聽
Mizzou's two road SEC games to this point have turned into maulings, and part of that is because there were key junctures where the offense couldn't get off the ground. I'm not saying it will happen, but looking at this South Carolina defense, I can absolutely see a path for an ugly start that seals the game early on.
叠谤别迟迟辞:听Sam Horn came to Missouri as a very highly touted QB, but injuries have kept him off the field. Is he playing baseball and does he have any plans to play football again?
贬辞蹿蹿:听The quick answer to both parts of that question are that I don't know yet. The 2025 baseball roster has not been finalized yet (ie, it's not publicly out there). Horn hasn't said anything about his plans, but reporters also haven't been meeting with him since he's hurt. I think it's pretty established at this point that his best pro prospects are in baseball, not football, and his decision to undergo Tommy John surgery preserves baseball function over football availability. I'm not going to say explicitly that he'll only play baseball or never put on shoulder pads again, but I also don't think Eli Drinkwitz is betting the program on having Horn as his long-term QB.
senior scramble:聽Thanks for the chat. I try not to be negative but got some question. 1. Women's basketball is a mid-major at the best. The new coach is going to have to get SEC. talent. The SEC is loaded in women's basketball. Ashely Judd is really struggling over 20 turnovers in 4 games she looks totally lost out there. She was on the bench the last minutes of the Tulane game. The administration must invest in women's basketball otherwise getting a great coach will never happen. 2. Gates is a great man but what the heck is happening bringing in 18 guys. Subbing like a fire drill. I read today Pierce can really score and his minutes are cut. Warrick can change a game and he barley plays. These things were said by Gates. I have a good friend who is in Missouri hall of fame for high school basketball coaches. He told me the other day you can't win against SEC. teams playing numerous players with no defined sub patters.聽Ark has only 9 scholarship players he doesn't want a ton of players he fills he roster with walk -ons. Number 3 South Carolina is to good for this Missouri team. Mississippi Stae is a possible win and maybe ARK. AS a long time Mizzou fan 8 and 4 or 9 and 3 is a very good year. This Missouri team has overachieved they have some problems in some
Hoff:聽Given that the Mizzou women are 2-2 after losing to Vermont and Norfolk State (heard that name before?), yeah, it's a bad start to the year. As we'd talked about in these chats at times, it does seem like the decision to delay a coaching decision a year and let Pingeton's contract run out has put the women's basketball program in a pretty deep hole. Even if MU makes a home run hire in the spring, I'm not sure how quickly they can really climb out of it.聽
You hit the nail on the head with the investment point. This administration has not demonstrated that it is willing to invest in women's basketball. As a result, it missed out on the boom that has been the last few years of women's college hoops and what that's doing for the game. Given the extent to which they're banking on returns from football investment, I think they're probably feeling fine about it 鈥 right or wrong. I guess that's the logic driving college athletics these days. I wish Mizzou would have a relevant women's team. It'd be fun to cover them in competitive games against the South Carolinas and LSUs and Tennessees of the league, not nail-biter buy games. I'll write about this more as the hiring of a new coach eventually comes around, but it will be a big test for how Laird Veatch and the university want to handle non-football sports. That process will set the baseline for the next wave of what Missouri athletics looks like.聽
On the men's basketball roster size: I don't want to sound harsh in delivering this, but that's going to be a reality of any Dennis Gates team. If you told him he could roster 23 guys, he probably would. Especially after last season, when depth got so worn down by injuries. He wants to have enough players to consistently fill a rotation with playable guys. I understand that logic.
And I also understand and share the same bemusement with it at some moments. What's the point in bringing in the NCAA's active leading scorer (Warrick) if you're not going to let him play? Believe me, those of us on press row are often asking the same personnel/rotation questions that those of you in the stands or on your couch are.聽
What I've been thinking about this year though, given how many intriguing options there are on this hoops roster, is the other side of wanting a guy to play more. Warrick is someone I want to see get some consistent minutes. Annor Boateng, too, for development's sake. Marcus Allen has been really impressive in his short appearances, so I'm intrigued to see more. But those minutes have to come at the expense of the established players. So I think my new question I'll ask myself when I think "Player X needs more minutes" is to only entertain that as long as I can add "at the expense of Player Y" on the end of it. There are only 200 minutes to give out in a game, and Gates' approach is his approach.聽
On your final point: In a vacuum, an 8- or 9-win season is certainly nothing to scoff at for Missouri. It can both be a missed opportunity in a playoff sense and a decent overall year in a program sense. If you're the type of program where wining 8 or 9 games is a disappointment, that's a good thing.
With that list of players likely gone after this year, I have a feeling next year's results will end up being worse than this year's debacle. Even with another sort of favorable schedule, the talent will be much less, so they will likely be lucky to even make a bowl next year. Unless they have a lost of talent coming from the portal and starting.
Evil Calvin:聽With that list of players likely gone after this year, I have a feeling next year's results will end up being worse than this year's debacle. Even with another sort of favorable schedule, the talent will be much less, so they will likely be lucky to even make a bowl next year. Unless they have a lost of talent coming from the portal and starting.
贬辞蹿蹿:听Pretty soon, I think we can start putting together a loose outline of what Missouri will need to get in the portal. Already, though, it seems like it's going to need to be a lot. This offseason will see Drinkwitz lose a lot of the guys he built this thing (whatever that is) with. It'll test his ability to get portal talent more than any offseason to this point has. So with that in mind, this offseason will absolutely be a defining one. Otherwise it's right back to fighting for bowl eligibility against Arkansas at the end of the year.
Evil Calvin:聽I heard Cook might play. So which is better: a 40% Cook or a 100% Pyne?
贬辞蹿蹿:听Cook was listed as doubtful on yesterday's injury report, in case anyone missed that, so he's not ruled out. And funny you should mention that, because BenFred and I had this debate on yesterday's podcast. I had Cook around 70-80% for the sake of that hypothetical discussion, since I think that makes it a little closer: If Cook is only 40%, I don't think he plays.
I can absolutely see both ways of thinking, so I'm not going to come down vindictively in one camp or the other 鈥 in part because we know so little about Cook's injury. If it were me making the call, with what I know, I'd probably start Pyne. If he struggles, then I'd bring in Cook as a desperation bid, but if Mizzou can be competitive without risking Cook, that could be big.聽
If Cook isn't perfectly mobile and/or there's reinjury risk with contact to his throwing hand/risk, I'd be worried about trotting him out there against a really good pass rush and a new starting center in front of him. If that goes poorly, it could have farther reaching consequences than if Pyne plays poorly to start.聽
But again, if you disagree, I don't think you're wrong. It'll be really interesting to see how Drinkwitz and co. play this.
尘辞别:听Boateng has started the last 2 bball games and then disappeared; any idea why?
贬辞蹿蹿:听If it happens again tonight against MVSU, I'll ask Gates about it, but I don't think it's something to sweat given the overall weirdness of his early rotations. Boateng, against Eastern Washington, hit a nice midrange while on the floor, but that's it 鈥 no rebounds, assists, anything else. Maybe that's a factor? I'm thinking they generally want to ease him in to the college game so that he isn't overwhelmed. Not that a few minutes at the start of the game and then nothing else is the right way to do that, but probably is an underlying factor. Also, none of these games have been blowouts to the point where there's true garbage time yet, which could be influencing some rotation things.
Big Tortilla:聽Not to go down a rabbit hole and perhaps a topic for another time, but to follow up on your comment regarding women's basketball. Would you say that Mizzou has disinvested or simply has not invested in women's sports as a whole. Regarding women's basketball, I believe that Mizzou is not doing the university and it's fans well by allowing the coach to come back this year. What lead them to believe this year would be different the last? That leads to my point, why should people pay attention to women's basketball when it appears Mizzou athletics hasn't.
贬辞蹿蹿:听This will be something worth unpacking when the budget actuals for FY23 come out soon, but even then it will continue to change with revenue sharing coming down the pipeline. There was a timing component to Mizzou allowing Pingeton to come back for the final year of her contract 鈥 there was no AD at the time when the decision needed to be made 鈥 but also an investment one: Instead of paying for her buyout (which would've been in the vicinity of $400,000 鈥 not much for a department with a budget in the $140 million range), the school let the clock run out. In retrospect, that probably says a lot about what this season was going to be, which we already surmised wasn't going to be a whole lot. Y'all can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm guessing there's a significant sector of Mizzou fans who will tune out this season but are open to checking in when the new coach is hired. That reality is the byproduct of not investing a year ago (or sooner) in making the change.
顿颁骋:听My first issue, Eli, is HCED. I was a big fan of the hire. I was glad to see they didn't kneejerk fire him when he didn't turn things around right away. I like that he has matured in some ways, such as giving up OC duties to oversee the whole program. But he needs to stop reading everything on social media or the papers. I'm sorry, but his "what a stud" comment about Drew Pyne was ridiculous. It was an obvious shot at everyone who rightfully question how that limited talent was the backup. And the thing is, ED doesn't think he's a stud or they wouldn't have had a gameplan against OU suited for a freshman in high school. They were trying to the hide the QB, which is pretty tough to do, as we saw. Pyne was terrible most of the game. He deserves props for that one great throw to Wease for the TD. The long pass to Burden was a balloon into triple coverage and one defender fell down, which made the difference. But ED needs to grow up, and that's coming from a supporter.
贬辞蹿蹿:听Some of his commentary on what's being said about him/his players/his team is him not having a pulse on who's a journalist, who's a fan with media access, etc. For example: I, someone who covers this team as objectively as I can, don't think I wrote anything unfair about Drew Pyne. I raised questions and concerns that were valid after a three-pick performance, but I wasn't ripping the guy in any way that was across the line or even all that close to it. Some other people who write/tweet/talk more as fans did, and they're the ones who are probably deserving of a clap-back from the coach, but we all get it. That's just what the sports media industry is these days. Drinkwitz keeps receipts from everyone, evidently, but he's only in the room to be snarky about it with us, unless he wants to tweet stuff.
Sports is also results-based, which influences his behavior in an understandable way. Would he have said the same things about Pyne if Zion Young hadn't scored and the Tigers lost? Probably not, or at least not with the same tone. I don't think Drinkwitz would've talked about Cook the same way after K-State in 2023 if Mevis hadn't bagged a 61-yard field goal, either. Winning gives him the license to stay that stuff.聽
I can see where that gets tiring for fans. I see another comment in the queue that I won't publish because I try to keep these chats clean from a language standpoint (sorry, just the way I'm handling them) that calls Drinkwitz "insufferable." When he's on the attack against a minority of the fanbase or a few people who tweet more than they should, I can see where the snark fatigue comes into play.聽
顿颁骋:听Okay, rant #2. I'm over Coach Gates. I, like everyone, was stunned and impressed by year one. But now I think that year was more about two seniors (Brown and Hodges) having crazy good years. I see the same nonsense that I saw last year. Poor rebounding, no shooting, ridiculous lineup combos. As you have noted multiple times, the offense is constipated. The first half of the shot clock is burned up by purposely passing on the perimeter (alliteration!) that accomplishes nothing. What the H is going on with Pierce? Seems like the worse thing he did was light it up in the first half against Memphis. No freshmen played against Memphis? Nice vote of confidence there. I'm tired of size for size's sake. Gray can't play. It's 4 on 5 when he's in, and this team doesn't have the firepower to support that. This 18 man roster nonsense--I'm just over it all. I don't see more than 5 wins in conference with this team. They won't be able to score enough to win much more than that. Again.
贬辞蹿蹿:听I certainly see some of the same red flags and have pointed them out: Shooting and half-court offense are top of the list for me right now. Like I sort of alluded to earlier, I'm not sweating too much rotation stuff at this point in the season. The first rotation that I think is worth getting worked up about will be Cal on Dec. 3. Until then, I'm going to assume there's some degree of experimentation happening. Doesn't mean I'll understand all of the lineups, I'm just not going to make them into too much of a big deal. (But don't worry, I'll still do a deep dive into lineups and player combinations for next week because I know many of you do like those details.)
If last season burned through all the patience equity you're willing to give this program, that's fair. But I do think some patience is in order during these first few weeks. There were iffy results early in the 22-23 season, too. I think Mizzou was only beating MVSU by a few points at halftime that season. There is definitely more talent on this year's team than last year's. It's quite apparent, I'd argue. But I also won't argue with anybody that things are fine if that never shows up. In the meantime, the rotations will look weird. There will be questions about who is playing, who they're playing with and who's watching from the bench. There won't always be answers, in part because there are a lot of weird things happening. I won't tell anybody how to be a Mizzou fan, but I think staying sane might require a mindset of weathering this storm to come in with more precise critiques, concerns and questions in December.聽
1976 Grad:聽For old-timers, a win against OU will always earn the coach some political capital, which he'll no doubt need soon enough. Great going, Drink. Not to look ahead too far, but there is a game next year against an old Big 12, Big 8 and Big 7 foe that simply must be won.
贬辞蹿蹿:听Given the state of relations between Mizzou and Oklahoma fans on Twitter, I think the new-timers feel a similar way! Drinkwitz pointed this out during his radio show this week, and I agree with him here: After seeing what MU-OU looked like this year, reviving things against the school to the west next year will really be something.聽
1976 Grad:聽Do you know much about the 2025 Mizzou baseball team. Will it be a team worth watching? Thanks for the chat.
贬辞蹿蹿:听I'll be honest 鈥 I don't. I only tuned in a little bit last season given their struggles and the other things happening in Mizzou athletics land. I imagine Kerrick Jackson will be pretty blunt when we get closer to the season about what this year's prospects are, and I'll relay that then. You'd think it'll have to be upgraded from the 2024 performance.
1976 Grad:聽I've been trying to imagine scenarios in which Mizzou finds a way to win against South Carolina when their strength (D-Line) goes up against a weakness for Mizzou (O-Line with injuries). How do the Tigers pull this one off?
贬辞蹿蹿:听It's tough, isn't it? It starts with Missouri finding some way to at least keep the South Carolina D-line from causing complete wreckage (like what A&M did). Otherwise it's a non-starter and likely another lopsided defeat. But beyond that, it might come down to Mizzou's defense: Can that group keep the score-to-beat around the mid teens? If the Tigers only need to score, say, 17 points to win and the offense gets help with short fields, that becomes more doable than needing to match 28, 31, 35, points against this defensive front. That would also likely allow MU to keep a healthy diet of running the ball in play versus being in obvious passing situations.聽
顿颁骋:听Thank you for this response. It makes me feel as if I'm not making these things up. I was on a high after that game and was so pleased to see the fight they had in trying circumstances, but then ED made that comment and it just set me off. Again, I think the gameplan said all you need to know about what they really thought about Pyne. And no, you wrote nothing remotely over the line. You are evenhanded much like your predecessor to the beat.
I just have to say thanks for the thoroughness of your responses. I don't think Gates's approach with huge rosters and crazy player rotations is the way to go. I don't think it really tells you what you have and doesn't give players a chance to develop rhythms, but I appreciate your response.
贬辞蹿蹿:听Glad I'm able to at least hear all of you out on these things. I do think the huge rosters and changing rotations is one of those fundamental sports things that people will disagree on at a pretty firm level. Not saying anyone's wrong for it, but it's kind of like analytics-driven fourth down decisions in football or the shift in baseball. Maybe this season will give some sort of definitive answer to the debate as it pertains to Gates and MU.聽
The game plan point is also worth flagging: Pyne is not Cook, and the coaching staff is aware of that. Asking the former to do everything the latter does is not setting anybody up for success. That will be something to watch against South Carolina, if it's Pyne again.聽
厂肠丑濒补测:听Thanks for the Chat. I was originally worried that the Transfer Portal and NIL money would make the big boys even more dominate. It now appears to me that the opposite has happened. Good players that were once trapped at a Top program can move without penalty and it has put more talent into starting roles at more schools. Thoughts on my untested theory?
贬辞蹿蹿:听I'm sure there's a way to test this with data that neither you nor I have the time/skill to do, but I think you're generally describing what the dynamic has looked like at times. Mizzou has been able to make Luther Burden into a kind of star that he probably wouldn't be if he were at, say, Georgia, though that's a little more of an NIL thing than a portal thing.
Obviously, blue bloods are doing fine in both football and basketball. But you're seeing teams like Missouri last year, Indiana this year make runs. And what I think is encouraging is seeing non-blue blood schools step up to invest and keep talent in place. Boise State put together a package to keep Ashton Jeanty there for another year, and he just might bring them a Heisman. South Carolina is going to give its young defensive end Dylan Stewart a hefty deal to stay in place. If schools will invest wisely, they can absolutely be competitive and have top-tier talent there.聽
I'm not sure how many of y'all are fans of global soccer, but it really does operate similarly to college football. There are different leagues at different levels and ranging levels of investment in each. The top tier tends to be the top tier over the long run, but you can see teams making the right moves and players picking the right spots as big influencers.聽
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